follow up (part two)
I want to offer a revision to one of my recent posts. In "VI. Jesus" I said that I don't believe in the ascension of Jesus. That's not entirely true, and I apologize for the misleading that such a statement could cause.
It's a fact that I don't believe that the historical Jesus actually levitated into the sky and broke through the stratosphere en route to the heavenly corner of outer space.
But I do believe that the Bible's story (referenced in Mark 16, Luke 24, and Acts 1) about the ascension of Jesus is true.
To say that something is true is more than (not less than) saying that something happened.
The story of Jesus' ascent expresses his "new level of spiritual attainment", his "transcendence and liberation from the constraints of the human condition", and his always-presence in our explorations of what it means to become fully human, fully alive, eternally alive. (quoted words borrowed from Karen Armstrong, the italics are my addition)
I am compelled and encouraged by this story that I believe tells the truth.
This sort of approach raises questions for some people.
For instance, "If you do away with the story of the ascension [or in a lot of similar conversations the story at hand is that of creation as contained in both Genesis 1 and 2, but the point is...] what's to keep you from doing away with Jesus' resurrection? or miraculous birth? or his divinity? or the sending of the Holy Spirit? or the promise of heaven after life as we know it has come to an end?"
In response I ask that it be considered once again whether such an approach does indeed do away with the story? Does the truth contained in the story require that each event happened in a literal fashion? If your answer is "yes" then please hold to that truth, hold to it in the fashion that your heart and conscience necessitates. And if mine is "no" please understand that you and I have a hold of the same truth, though our grip may differ.
Another question is, "Who are you [insert my name, or someone else perhaps] to decide what is to be taken literally and what isn't?
Indeed, point well made, I completely agree and readily refrain (and hope that anyone else would do the same) from assuming such authority.
The task of seeking understanding and direction from one's sacred scriptures belongs to the community that holds those scriptures as authoritative. That community must use both scholarship and common sense, must heed the voices of academic experts, qualified clerical leaders, and committed believers. It is also the responsibility of the community to corporately heed the voices of those who are often marginalized and silenced.
Only as part of such an ongoing conversation will scripture become alive with its full potential to guide in the way of love and truth. Only then will it silence the chatter of the minority that uses religion as a justification for violence, and the babble of those who sell certainty as a synonym for faith. Only then will it equip and enable its followers to live in a manner corresponding with the hope available in its words.
It's a fact that I don't believe that the historical Jesus actually levitated into the sky and broke through the stratosphere en route to the heavenly corner of outer space.
But I do believe that the Bible's story (referenced in Mark 16, Luke 24, and Acts 1) about the ascension of Jesus is true.
To say that something is true is more than (not less than) saying that something happened.
The story of Jesus' ascent expresses his "new level of spiritual attainment", his "transcendence and liberation from the constraints of the human condition", and his always-presence in our explorations of what it means to become fully human, fully alive, eternally alive. (quoted words borrowed from Karen Armstrong, the italics are my addition)
I am compelled and encouraged by this story that I believe tells the truth.
This sort of approach raises questions for some people.
For instance, "If you do away with the story of the ascension [or in a lot of similar conversations the story at hand is that of creation as contained in both Genesis 1 and 2, but the point is...] what's to keep you from doing away with Jesus' resurrection? or miraculous birth? or his divinity? or the sending of the Holy Spirit? or the promise of heaven after life as we know it has come to an end?"
In response I ask that it be considered once again whether such an approach does indeed do away with the story? Does the truth contained in the story require that each event happened in a literal fashion? If your answer is "yes" then please hold to that truth, hold to it in the fashion that your heart and conscience necessitates. And if mine is "no" please understand that you and I have a hold of the same truth, though our grip may differ.
Another question is, "Who are you [insert my name, or someone else perhaps] to decide what is to be taken literally and what isn't?
Indeed, point well made, I completely agree and readily refrain (and hope that anyone else would do the same) from assuming such authority.
The task of seeking understanding and direction from one's sacred scriptures belongs to the community that holds those scriptures as authoritative. That community must use both scholarship and common sense, must heed the voices of academic experts, qualified clerical leaders, and committed believers. It is also the responsibility of the community to corporately heed the voices of those who are often marginalized and silenced.
Only as part of such an ongoing conversation will scripture become alive with its full potential to guide in the way of love and truth. Only then will it silence the chatter of the minority that uses religion as a justification for violence, and the babble of those who sell certainty as a synonym for faith. Only then will it equip and enable its followers to live in a manner corresponding with the hope available in its words.
posted by aram mitchell | 4:47 PM
3 Comments:
i have really enjoyed reading this series of your posts, very interesting, insightful, and thought provoking. some new ideas, some understanding of existing ones. people's reactions and interpretation of them have also been interesting..and i respect the way you handled disagreement and further explaining your thoughts
"Commenting on "seeking understanding and direction from the Scriptures" – as well as it being the task of community or church body using common sense and listening to voices of many experts, scholars, clerical leaders, etc., I think that is true and well said but I would add the importance of (and I speak to myself because I love to hear what others have to say) reading the Scriptures for ourselves with our Counselor, the Holy Spirit guiding us in ALL truth. Then...join in the conversation."
Steve Said...
Wonderful parting thoughts and clarifications. I am sad you are done as it has fostered so many thoughts and such great discussion.
I appreciated your "revision" on the ascension. And I also appreciated your thoughts on "True" versus "literal"... that was helpful and I believe, with more dialogue...which I love, we would be landing in very close proximity. Linda and I have had the same discussion about Revelation. Does Jesus have to come on a white horse with a sword literally protruding from His mouth for the scriptures to be true? I don't believe so.
I believe there is much more dialogue needed about the scriptures by all without fear. However, I also believe that dialogue needs to happen INSIDE the bounds of scripture. It seems to me that Your revision of the Ascension is a perfect example. When you wrote that you did not believe in the Ascension and then initially described the idea you "liked" to believe, it did not seem to me to be within the bounds of the scriptures. When you further explained in your revision, although it does not coincide exactly with what I believe, I believe that your understanding is within the bounds of scriptures and therefore I can accept it, affirm it, discuss it and learn from it. When I say "I" let me be clear, your question "Who am I, or anyone" to judge whether something is true or not
is a great one and I believe your answer is equally accurate...NONE of us can, but to me this is why we clearly must have something to define the context of our discussion, something to give it borders, places we can go, place we cannot. If not, then we are left with "Man's wisdom" and "common sense" and I have discovered that both of those terms are oxymorons...Man does not have wisdom, and neither is good sense common...or in some cases even possible. In fact if you asked me to describe the entirety of the scriptures in a thought to someone I would have to tell them..."be warned, what they will tell you will go against everything that is realistic, logical or sensible." Live by Dying, Get by giving, love those who would kill you...nothing logical or common about those choices.
I have found that many times in life God's Word cannot be brought into line with Common sense, or science, what do I choose when they come into conflict...and they often do? I have at times in my life chosen to believe science...only to find it incomplete and incongruent with who I am and found myself disappointed in where it lead me and what it told me. I have certainly tried common sense only to find out what I thought was common sense or logical was again wrong and misleading and destructive.
Then I have trusted the scriptures and I can tell you (in the long run) I have yet to be disappointed in their path and destination.
God has given us minds to ponder...(He was more generous with you than with me) but I take Paul's cautions from Ephesians 4 when he described those who's "hearts were hardened", who were "unable to understand"..."kept from walking with God" because of the "Futility of their minds".
If God can be fully understood, or can be measured, calculated and "confirmed" by man/women...any man/woman or group of men/women, that would seem to disqualify Him from being God...at least as I understand the definition of God and NEED a God.
Again you have taken me to my core beliefs and I thank you... it is always so good to visit there.
I love you Aram,
Steve
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